Sadly the old disc world Captain Samuel Vimes ‘Boots’ theory of socio-economic unfairness boot theory applies.
“The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money. Take boots, for example. … A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a season or two and then leaked like hell when the cardboard gave out, cost about ten dollars. … But the thing was that good boots lasted for years and years. A man who could afford fifty dollars had a pair of boots that’d still be keeping his feet dry in ten years’ time, while a poor man who could only afford cheap boots would have spent a hundred dollars on boots in the same time and would still have wet feet. This was the Captain Samuel Vimes ‘Boots’ theory of socio-economic unfairness.”
Buying in bulk, investing in yourself, buying durable, better-quality stuff. It’s costly to be poor.
They really didn’t last forever. Survivors bias is all. They broke, just more permanently then others.
Yep, when I was a kid I remember people grousing about how stuff used to last forever and now it doesn’t. 20 years later, I got to hear people talk about how stuff made when I was a kid used to last forever but now it doesn’t. Now I get to hear how stuff made 20 years ago used to last forever but now it doesn’t.
Every time something breaks, someone points to something 20 years old that didn’t break and forget all the stuff that did break.
They also could be fixed, sometimes trivially.
Now if the plastic over a button isn’t the right one, things stop working.
Yeah this is a huge thing with vehicles. I like my Japanese cars and typically have had either Toyota or Honda. Neither was problem-free by any stretch, but at the same time the ENGINES tended to be very reliable with routine maintenance (belt/oil/etc changes) and the other stuff parts were always available and generally not too expensive.
My car’s did spend a decent amount of time in the shop, but at 360,000km the engine in my old Camry was still running like a champ even if it burned a little bit of oil and certain parts of the body were becoming more bondo than metal. When small things failed, I’d grab a new one from the hardware store or in some cases the wrecker. I was - with assistance - able to do basic general repairs like belts, brakes, and a clutch in my relatives’ garage. We did fuck up the timing slightly once but the engine just stalled out without any permanent damage (whew). I’ll also add that a lot of people who drove the more “efficient” foreign cars tended to treat them nicely whereas versus domestics or sporty vehicles. The mindset of the owner matters too.
These days… fuck. I can’t even easily change the stereo out on my current car - and that’s now over a decade old - because it’s tied into the side/rear camera system, front display, and a bunch of other shit. I think there’s like one head unit that will still handle that stuff but it’s hard to get and even then there’s no guarantee. Domestic stuff is even worse, with certain trucks unable to source key parts within months of the warranty ending. There’s one model where the ECU failed regularly and the supply of replacements dried up, others in shortages due to “supply chain” issues etc, and a whole run of GMC vehicles from between '21 and '24 with connecting rod issues (6.2L v8) that have a major backlog in parts even for in-warranty repairs.
My wife’s car… well it’s an EV which - while it’s great not to be buying gas at these prices, the company absolutely is not building these to be convenient to service, and we’re lucky if the local dealer could do the more complex stuff it battery work much less a 3rd party mechanic (or me). I’m actually looking at some of the Chinese models which can have safer batteries that are built to be more easily swapped out, and China being what it is somebody will probably be able to make replacement parts for decades.
New ones can be fixed as well. Most people don’t take the time to do it. They aren’t that hard to repair.
Of course, the practice of repair was different when the appliance costed relatively a lot more.
E.g. a TV was more likely to be repaired, but also costed about 10x as much relatively speaking.
So if it would have cost you 25% of the price of a TV to get it repaired, you would have got it repaired. If it’s just as easy to repair now, then the repair would still be over twice the price of just buying new.
To me its not about the cost and more about the waste generated. If it keeps it out of a landfill, I’ll repair it.
My modern fridge automatically defrost itself and has an incredibly silent compressor. More than once I forgot to close the freezer door correctly and still it’s not covered in ice on the inside. It uses so little energy into its day to day operation.
My modern drier has a heat pump built in to effeciently heat the air. It also detects how long it needs to run to get my clothes to the perfect dryness.
My modern dishwasher has a heat exchanger system to retain the heat from the dirty water to warm the fresh water. This saves energy.
Modern devices maybe have their problems. Sometimes with cheaper components or worse repairability. But don’t pretend like the only innovation we had over the years was to add wifi to your appliances.
My new from store 2 year old fridge had to be replaced recently. Repair estimate was $1k which is more than the cost of the entire fridge itself
That sucks but how does that relate to my comment?
More features, more that can go wrong. More tech, more that can fail or work improperly. Usually these are more expensive repairs, too, if they even can be replaced without replacing the whole unit.
Modern appliances have a lot more features, and usually have some very nice improvements! However, they have a reputation for being unreliable and failing early.
The overall sentiment of the thread is how appliance don’t last as long as they used to, before they added all the “smart” features. That the durability is the measure of “goodness”, not the number of features. You brought up a bunch of great features, someone replied to you that their new appliances didn’t last longer than two years before being replaced.
That is how it relates to your comment, as a counterpoint.
I acknowledged problems with reliability and repairability in my own post.
Factoring in the lifespan of an appliance is definitely a good idea, but it’s also true that old appliances are often incredibly inefficient compared to their counterparts. As always you have to be a savvy shopper to find out what is good and what is bad. I’d never get myself a smart fridge but a modern one has features I wouldn’t want to miss.
There’s also survivorship bias. Garbage appliances were made in the old days too.
The refrigerator in the photo is auto defrosting, I’m almost certain.
Also, there’s a drive for some markets towards French door fridges and those leak a tremendous amount of energy.
The energy saving parts also come with cost cutting, which is how I interpret the post. My 2001 era dishwasher was recently replaced with a 2024 model (in 2025) and the old one weighs nearly twice as much. They’re comparable in the product line of their time from the same manufacturer; the new one cost more. But it’s not just mass. It’s insulation, it’s metal parts replaced with plastic, nylon-glass fibre parts replaced with ABS and it’s thinning down components to last just until the warranty expires.
It doesn’t have a heat exchanger though. What kind of dishwasher?
I bought a french door fridge specifically because the design makes it so that my dog can’t get the door open. I figure the energy leaking from the door design is far less than the energy and food loss of the door being left open all day while I’m at work because my adorable idiot wanted a snack.
When my parents were kids, their home-ec class consisted of repeatedly hammering into their heads to cook meat at 400 degrees for 30 minutes or eose they’d get sick because the refrigeration was so unreliable
That’s why my grandmother made such overdone roasts. I just thought I didn’t like roast beef much until I tried it medium rare instead of charred to a grey cube of leather.
Same, I used to wonder why the looney tunes characters always treated steak as this big delicious thing when my experience with it was disgusting dried shoe leather that required 3 cans of coke to get down.
Where do you live that your parents are old enough to have unreliable ice boxes, but modern enough that both the man and women took home-ec?
Canada
Are we that old now?
Golden age revisionism is a comforting illusion that edits out the past’s flaws and distorts reality; it becomes dangerous when it shapes decisions based on nostalgia instead of truth.
Those 1980s fridges for ex lacked ice makers and water filtration, used far more energy due to inefficient design, struggled with consistent temperatures that spoiled food faster, often required manual defrosting, and had poor seals that let cold air escape and raised costs.
Golden age revisionism is the chief tactic of blow hard Republicans. Ever hear, make America great…again?
I’ve never used a fridge that has an ice maker or water filtration. They are still premium options, or some people just don’t have any use for the features.
Yeah, these must be American things. Never encountered them in Europe in a non-professional setting.
My wife just got a ~20k hospital bill but hey at least our fridge filters the drinking water automatically
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I hypothesize that youve been out of the consumer fridge market for at least 10 years. Water filter and ice maker ia the basic bitch options these days.
Premiums option today are things like climate zones, adjustable shelving, ai, inventory tracking and digital screen/computer that you can write notes on or ask ur fridge what meals you can make from the fridge contents.
But don’t take my word for it, google it yo.
They are really trying to invent new needs to sell you more stuff. I wouldn’t use any of this if I had it.
The market dictates what sells and 80% of consumer decisions in the usa are made by women.
I too can be content with less, but we aren’t driving the market. We’re likely adult men.
Except in this case its true. They have over stuffed modern appliances with useless features that shorten the life of the appliance. As to how they didn’t comes with ice makers. Of course they did. Most had a place where it could be added if you didn’t buy one with that feature. Water filtration wasn’t there true enough but no one thought of that then. Only older early 70’s fridges came without defrosting. As to the poor seals you get that from damage which applies to modern fridges as well. The fridge I have is from the early 90’s and it rocks. No problems with ice buildup No leaks and a consistent temperature. I dread having to buy some modern POS built to fail so you can get sold another one.
Not everything is a republican plot to get you to purchase a forty year appliance.
I have a mini fridge purchased new early 00s that I recently left unplugged for a day or so to melt the ice buildup on the freezer.
Not that I’m happy with the overall state of appliances these days, but the reality is that technology is still improving, but some of those “improvements” aren’t for the buyer’s benefit (while others are). And there’s plenty of plain old cheap shit in a nice brushed stainless steel package to make it look high end.
Like induction stoves and convection ovens weren’t really a thing in the 80s but imo are way better than what came before. But, despite being a convection oven, the cheap one the developers picked for my place is the worst oven I’ve ever used. And I’m hesitant to “upgrade” because, despite knowing they can be better, there’s a good chance whatever I end up getting won’t, or make will be at first but will start degrading rapidly from day 1 such that it’s shitty by the time the warranty runs out.
That is the big difference between modern and older appliances. The older ones were made in good faith, the newer ones are a gamble because we have an economic system based on greed and it has progressed a lot since the 50s.
“The eye sees only what the mind is prepared to comprehend.” — Henri Bergson
misquoting someone doesn’t work with me. I mean I see just fine. I see that people are buying appliances and they last just past the warranty. I don’t care if they are super efficient. You lose that money saved when you have to keep buying another one.
I mean you ain’t wrong or nothing, but I’m pretty sure they’re mostly focusing on enshitification.
I’m 40 and the only memory I have of an old appliance that stands out was the time I took soaked clothes and put them in the dryer and ran it. I broke that sum-bitch gud
I will share your pain bro, give it here.
You forgot about the locking doors so children had to be taught not to play inside of them if you saw one outside because you would suffocate and die.
I remember watching an episode of Punky Brewster on TV about that.
Now that is a name I haven’t hear in a long time…pb.
^as said by somebody who never had to replace the motor on their washer, or the burned on their range, or the belt on their dryer, or the elements in the water heater…
The reason they always worked forever was because your dad bought replacement parts from the appliance repair store and didn’t complain to you about it.
This is literally one of the top 3 good things about YouTube
have repaired my oven twice (15 years) and dryer three times (16 years). it’s amazing how many appliances can be repaired if people just take the time to dig into it.
unless it has a screen. fuck everything about that shit.
We tried to repair our washing machine but the fuckers designed it in such a way that the drum and bearing or something of the sort are inseparabale and thus you cannot just replace rhe bearing which was fucked in ours but you have to get the whole assembly. So instead of a probably 50-100€ worth of parts the repair would be in the 200-300€ range and at that point it made no sense spending that much money on a 6 year old machine.
ooof
I remember when I was in uni, living on-campus in a student dorm. Living conditions were not great, the rooms were small and they stuffed 3 or 4 guys in each room. We each had a bed, a chair, a tiny wardrobe, a shelf and half a desk. No fridge. Each fall, when we got back to school, there was an effervescent market for old used refrigerators. Everybody was buying and selling fridges for the first 1 or 2 weeks. One year we bought a 50 year old Zil fridge made in the USSR in the 60’s. We paid like €10 for it. It was heavy as hell and we had to carry it up the stairs to the 4th floor. The thing made a loud, continuous buzzing which helped drown out one of our colleague’s thunderous snoring. We loved it. I don’t remember what happened to it or who got to keep it after we disbanded, but I’m sure it still works.
You mean those things that are 10x less efficient?
I too can build a wooden box that will last you multiple lifetimes. But it won’t keep your food cold.
It’s not because of efficiency that things last less time now.
Crucial parts that used to be made of metal are now plastic to save money, etc.
It’s not because of efficiency that things last less time now.
well, yeah, a lot of over-engineering makes things fickle and it increases the number of potential failure points. simpler technology is simply more durable. My grandma has equipment they used for farming when she was a kid (that was 70 years ago). Stuff like buckets, pushcarts, manual hoes (those you use for farming, think minecraft hoes). They still work flawlessly.
Also there’s literally a proverb that says: “You don’t need an engineer to build a bridge that stands. You need an engineer to build a bridge that just barely stands.”
In other words, modern mathematics has taught people how to build houses that are just stable enough that they will last for a lifetime, then they collapse. Meanwhile the house that my uncle lives in was built around 500 years ago and still stands. It’s one of these old houses with extra thick walls (think 1m thick cutstone walls), it has a cellar and multiple stories. People back then did not cheap out on construction materials. Also the egyptian pyramids still stand because they are in no sense of the word “efficient”.
Eh. It made more sense hundreds of years ago for people to build houses that lasted for centuries. That kind of construction makes sense in periods of slow technological and social change.
But think of how differently people live now vs just a hundred years ago. Imagine buying a house without running water, electric wiring, or insulation. Sure, old homes can be renovated to have these. But that requires tearing the thing down to the bare stone or wood walls and starting from scratch. You have to gut the entire building. The only thing that remains is the shell, a shell which represents only 20% of the cost of the building, if that. Most of the cost of a building is not in the structure itself, yet that’s the only part that gets saved in a complete gutting and renovation.
If you build a house today that lasts centuries, the only way that house will still be occupied 300 years from now is if it’s been gutted down to the studs multiple times over the generations. And at that point, why build an ultra-durable house in the first place? Why not build something lighter that requires fewer resources up front, and can simply be torn down and recycled once it’s become obsolete?
yeah you’re right, one of the reason why a lot of houses in the US today are built rather thin and lightweight (think wooden structures, cardboard-thin walls) is because it is not clear whether the houses would even want to be inhabited in 100 years. not just because of technological change, but also because there could be population declines. not only is the total birthrate in the US today declining rapidly and far below replacement levels, which will lead to a declining population number in the future, but there is also a lot of migration within the US. think for example of all the towns in the rust belt, where economy used to be very active in the 1900 while now it’s essentially a dead area. the production and industry has shifted to the coastlines, and it might continue to shift, so building a house today that lasts for centuries, if people stop being interested in living there in 50 years, might not be wise.
If you think the concept of saving money on shoddy parts was invented this decade you just never paid attention. “Metal” isn’t some kind of magic substance that just works forever, cheap cast bullshit iron can shatter quicker than you can say “structural integrity”.
The reason everyone is glazing up this old appliances is because of survivorship bias, everyone sees one on the million devices and doesn’t see millions of old bullshits that disintegrated into nothingness over years.There literally are cases of switching from steel moving parts to plastic in appliances. Plus many manufacturers no longer sell spare parts past past maybe a year or two.
Appliances used to cost actual money so they had to be reliable and more importantly, repairable. Good luck finding spare parts for most washing machines or TVs nowadays. They’re designed to be thrown away because otherwise you no longer have any reason to upgrade. At least 50 years ago, technology changed fast enough that you’d have incentive to upgrade for efficiency, features, etc.
TV is quite unique because they’re cheap so you watch ads and they watch you and sell your data. You don’t repair them not because you can’t but because it’s cheaper to buy a new one because with TV you are the product.
With all the rest you absolutely can repair it, it’s just way harder because the technology is more complicated, smaller, integrated better. I repaired my washing machine myself 5 years ago with no prior knowledge buying a spare part on aliexpress, and it was Samsung, notorious for subpar repairability. On the other hand, I failed to repair my smartwatch even though I had spare parts, again was incredibly easy to find, but it’s was so complicated and small so without expensive equipment I couldn’t do it, but that’s absolutely not their fault.
Meanwhile, 50 or so years old TV my dad refused to throw out for nostalgic reasons had to be repaired every year like clockwork, it took him a full day, and by the end of it’s life spare vacuum tubes were more expensive than a new tv.
Anyway, planned obsolescence was always a thing, the legends are saying the first commercial lightbulb was sold with this concept in mind. But it’s not as ubiquitous as we fear it isYou can still buy those expensive appliances. The brands exist. Just be prepared to pay the prices your grandparents paid.
Some of the brands have turned to shit tho.
Samsung used to make reliable washers about two decades ago. Bosch appliances used to have a better reputation. Etc.
Miele is the only one still making supposedly reliable stuff but I read they’re relaxing their once great parts availability policy. No they’re not getting cheaper, just enshittifying.
Generally, the more efficient the system, the more fragile it is. I’m not a materials engineer, but metal isn’t always the best material for the job.
Plus, you can still get built to last appliances if you’re willing to shell out as much money as they did in the past. Large appliances used to be major purchases that you had to budget and save up for months to get, but these days you can hop down to the big box store and get a relatively cheap hunk of junk.
Plastic is never a great material for parts whose primary purpose is transmission of power, especially via friction (so gears and such). It’s great for parts that don’t have to withstand any force, but unfortunately it increasingly gets used for parts that do.
When you make the motor, including the shaft itself, out of metal, saving 2 grams by making a cog out of the cheapest
chocolateplastic available isn’t saving much weight or money. It does however guarantee the device will fail earlier.You can also have a more efficient system without sacrificing durability. Take a look at the Bosch CP3 high pressure fuel pump. Stout metal piston. Million kilometers is not unheard of. Meanwhile, Continental/Siemens made a hpfp that used super thin membranes to pump fuel. Those usually die in less than 100k km. Both available at the same time and both serve the goal of enabling using direct injection to improve fuel efficiency and emissions. But the joke here is that the Bosch one runs at much higher pressures (it’s for diesels) and is STILL cheaper to buy new. So people with engines that use the Siemens one would just scrap the car if it goes and they can’t get a specific used piston pump to replace it with (also a Bosch one, but I forgot the name). This is in the GM 2.2 Direct engine in Vauxhalls and Opels. Those cars have disposable fueling systems (and engines in fact since you can melt a piston once that membrane pump fails).
There is also a survivorship bias at play here. Old appliances that are still in use are exactly the appliances where all the constituent parts were top quality, that have had the right maintenance, that have, against all odds, survived. Plenty of those old appliances didn’t survive.
Yes capitalism has done what it does to increase profitability and desirability, but there are still got quality appliances that last. They just usually don’t have the most features, or a luxury look. When I got a new fridge-freezer last year, the guy who installed it told me that he rarely saw that model returned or repaired, and when it was repaired, it was pretty cheap. He also said he’d never buy a smart fridge, so I felt vindicated in buying the simplest device on the market.
You can buy appliances without smart features still?
Best Buy has dozens, if not hundreds, of fridges without smart features. I can buy a 18cu top freezer fridge for $450 right now.
That same type of fridge back in the 1970s cost $300-$400. Adjusted for inflation that’s $2,000
So I don’t get this post. You can buy cheap fridges still and it’ll probably last a long time if you take care of it. Read repair reports or Google random problems for a fridge you’re looking to buy to see the most common failure points and see what the repair cost would be to factor in future costs.
Stupid post.
Yep. Have four of those type. Occasionally, once a decade or so, I have to maintain em. But otherwise I milk em. Like cows.
If you are thinking of how you milk a washing machine, Imma ask if you been thinkin hard enough
They weren’t smart enough to maximize shareholder value :P
Built to outlast the owner.
Admittedly, the timer of my old microwave isn’t reliable anymore, since it’s spring got weak. But it would be easy to fix, if i get to it sometime. Staring at a screen has higher priority.
Edit: typo
this is simple. apart from legit improvements like efficiency (for example pwm motors in heat pumps), those markets will eventually saturate over a business region. but stocks must go up.
Well, they worked forever because you could get them fixed. They will break down but you could repair them yourself or get it repaired. Unsure about whitegoods, but small appliances these days are expected to end up in landfill; no exposed screws and everything is glued in.
no exposed screws and everything is glued in.
Ironically, everything being glued in is also the reason why they last much longer before you have to repair them for the first time. Screws are potential failure points where stuff can get loose. When stuff is glued together with modern glues, it’s basically shut like welded. It doesn’t get loose and lasts much longer.
Especially for stuff like smartphones that’s relevant. When stuff is screwed together, it’s typically not air-tight, and water can get in and ruin stuff. Glued together, it’s watertight basically completely.
You’ve clearly never tried to fix anything at least within the last decade.
When things are glued and there are no exposed screws, this means that you can’t replace parts and it means that in order to get inside to see what broke, you need to break it open very carefully. This means that in most cases, they break beyond repair and force you to buy a new one.
If you can break it open carefully, because everything is glued in (or in some cases just punched in during manufacture), you can’t replace anything because there’s nothing you can mount the new part to.
Phones are not appliances; they’re electronic devices and are much more complicated BUT should be repairable, as they used to be back in the 90s.
And have you seen the inside of a device that’s glued in? It is definitely NOT water tight. The glue is hard and cracks, and the purpose of the glue is not for IP, but to just keep the part in place and save 2c on each screw.
But I digress… Check out IFixit. Hopefully after going through some points on what the benefits are for right to repair, you’ll change your stance on this.
