In a nutshell: As Microsoft prepares to end free security updates for Windows 10 in October, a significant challenge looms for charities that refurbish and distribute older computers to those in need. With an estimated 240 million PCs unable to meet the stringent hardware requirements for Windows 11, these organizations face a difficult decision: provide potentially insecure Windows 10 systems, send them to e-waste recyclers, or explore alternative operating systems like Linux.
Microsoft’s requirements for Windows 11 include a 1GHz or faster CPU with at least two cores, 4GB of RAM, 64GB of storage, Secure Boot capability, and TPM 2.0 compatibility. However, the supported Intel CPU list only goes back to 8th Gen chips, introduced in 2017, while the AMD list includes Ryzen 2000 series and above.
However, Linux still lacks some popular applications, such as Microsoft Office and Slack, though alternatives are available.
Lol nice bait. Real talk though, just toss shortcuts to word.office.com, excel.office.com and outlook.office.com on the desktop and nobody will be any wiser
Or use Libre Office which just does the same without costing you money or data.
Slack
??? Slack works just fine on Linux
Quality reporting right here
how is this a hard choice? windows will keep ratcheting to shit. it will not improve. the question is: linux now, or tons of expense and trouble, and linux later?
The choice is hard because many charities already have a hard time maintaining what they have. To move to linux, they’d need people to know linux. Many volunteers that support this stuff simply don’t and are barely power-users themselves. I spend a good chunk of my day interacting with JUST windows users who have no idea how a computer actually works… they just know how to barely operate windows.
I would also like to mention the situation of printers. I can get my office printer working on chromeOS, Windows, Mac, but no Linux distro (other than chromeOS) wanted to play nice with it.
okay but windows will at some point become unusable. that’s not a question, that WILL happen. I already find it frustrating.
so do you rip off the band-aid, or spend a bunch of money to let the wound keep festering, then have to rip off the band-aid even worse later?
okay but windows will at some point become unusable.
Why would windows 10 magically become unusable? It’s not like Microsoft is going to send out a firmware brick at the EoL.
You know that you can still install XP today and get online… With minimal work you can actually get online completely on modern sites.
The same could be said for any linux distro.
not like microsoft is going to send out a firmware brick at the EoL
I don’t expect it, but I would only be slightly surprised.
can still install XP today
yes. windows xp was a fully local OS, and when you installed it, you stilled owned your computer. these things are not true of windows 10.
the same could be said for any linux distro
sure, and I could say you’re a chainsaw juggling pedophile lizard person who came from the future to make sure flavored foams don’t have a resurgence in upscale dining at any cost because the consequences, drawn out 200 years, are so much worse than fascism and several possible extinction events. saying shit is easy. doesn’t make it true.
…does it? do you need a heated rock?
yes. windows xp was a fully local OS, and when you installed it, you stilled owned your computer. these things are not true of windows 10.
Yes you can? It’s windows 11 that tries to lock you out, and even then you can install it without internet if you know the magic incantation…
But windows 10 will just install with a local account if you don’t give it internet (unplug ethernet and never setup a wifi).
sure, and I could say you’re a chainsaw juggling pedophile lizard person who came from the future to make sure flavored foams don’t have a resurgence in upscale dining at any cost because the consequences, drawn out 200 years, are so much worse than fascism and several possible extinction events. saying shit is easy. doesn’t make it true.
The fuck? Any linux install will eventually become unsupported. That is my claim to counter your nonsense claim of Windows becoming unusable.
Go take your pills.
nuh uh! there’s a hacked version that can do that!
could say the same about literally any software.
the fuck
I mean, i proved that I could say it. and proved how little impact saying it had upon the facts. whether or not you’re a chainsaw juggling pedophile lizard-person from the future, here to save us from unfortunate upscale dining trends. you either were or you weren’t, and me saying it changed nothing.
any linux install will
they update pretty cleanly without anti-features. it’s just a version numbering thing, dude. im sure there’s some old hardware that’s been dropped, but I’m running some pretty out-there linux installs on pre-2010 hardware with no difficulty.
There’s a barrier of entry to linux for sure BUT it really depends on the distro.
The issue I think is “marketing”. I’m sure most of these computer agnostic folks would be fine using Linux Mint or Ubuntu but to someone who doesn’t understand these things, just the fact that there’s a choice to make there is probably barrier enough.
If we lower the barrier of entry for installation and choice for them, the decision to switch becomes way easier, I think.
Go Linux without a doubt. The hardware is still usable.
My 10yo netbook runs the latest Debian Linux. If it was running on its original OS (XP) it would not only crawl but be dangerously vulnerable.
Wow, pretty unbelievable a netbook was still being sold with XP in 2015 lol. How’d you come about getting that?
Precisely what I am doing. Too many devices that still do what I need simply to ditch just because Windows 10 is EOL. I’m a bit over half-way in my migration (still have a few programs to sort out - may have to run a W10 VM for a couple of them as they don’t work under WINE and there is no Linux equivalent).
My desktop is a 2012 lenovo office machine. Fresh SSD, wifi card, and an… OK graphics card have had the thing purring for me since 2018.
What if the SSD and everything else are 9 years old? Is that worth risking data loss over?
If it’s that valuable, you should have backups anyway.
And chances are it’s all cloud work that they’re doing on the computers.
With the age of those computers you might even be looking at a HDD. Those should definitely be replaced, SSDs, it depends.
In any case a new 128G SDD is on the order of 15 bucks, well worth the investment even for an age-old system (unless you have a bit more extra cash because the GB/buck optimum is in the 0.5-2T range).
Microsoft’s requirements for Windows 11 include a 1GHz or faster CPU with at least two cores, 4GB of RAM, 64GB of storage,
All of this is no problem and essentially any computer manufactured in the last couple decades can meet these requirements. They’re effectively irrelevant for this discussion.
Secure Boot capability, and TPM 2.0 compatibility.
This is the problem right here. Pretty much every last computer you hear about that isn’t compatible it’s one or both of these, almost always the TPM 2.0 module.
That of course is if the reason you aren’t “upgrading” is because the hardware isn’t supported. For a great many of us our hardware is supported, we just don’t want all the bullshit anti-features Microsoft has crammed into Windows 11. Windows 10 was already bad enough with it’s constant telemetry spyware, that annoying Cortana garbage shoehorned in anywhere they could manage, the absolute atrocity that they turned the start menu search function into, and the annoying Teams and OneDrive integrations that randomly reinstalled and re-enabled themselves after updates.
Then MS went and had to cram in even more spyware by way of their horrible copilot garbage. All for what? What are we getting with 11 that’s better than 10? What feature justifies that upgrade? Nothing, that’s the answer. There’s no reason at all that 11 needed to be made.
Microsoft’s requirements for Windows 11 include a 1GHz or faster CPU with at least two cores, 4GB of RAM, 64GB of storage,
All of this is no problem and essentially any computer manufactured in the last couple decades can meet these requirements. They’re effectively irrelevant for this discussion.
IDK about you, but the Pentium 4 is not an ideal CPU for modern workloads. The absolute oldest hardware I would use today for anything is the Core2Duo with 8GB RAM. I know this because we have an A1276 MacBook Pro with the P8600 C2D, and it’s barely sufficient. You look at it and the cooling fan begins a launch sequence 😅 and that’s running Linux Mint. Windows 10/11 would grind it to a halt trying to run multiple tasks.
Windows 10 actually ran ok with all the aero effects turned off on my Mac mini core2duo T7600 & 3.25gb ram, wish I could have gotten 64 bit running though.
I believe it, but the Core architecture was a pretty significant upgrade from Netburst. Pentium 4 CPUs were really good at converting electricity to heat 😅
Super-slim distros like Tiny Core or Puppy will be a rocket on a P4.
And barely usable for standard user tasks in 2025.
I will leave this here for anyone who needs to use Windows but wants a little more privacy.
I’ll one up you
I’ll one up you both! With blackjack and hookers! ChrisTitusTech’s Winutil
All of this is no problem and essentially any computer manufactured in the last couple decades can meet these requirements. They’re effectively irrelevant for this discussion.
Not quite. Windows 11 requires an Intel 8th gen or AMD Zen+ CPU or newer, with some odd exceptions. I’ve dealt with some machines that only fail on the CPU check and can confirm that Windows 11 will refuse to install without bypassing those arbitrary ‘requirements’.
I do agree with the rest of your post though.
I think it should be viewed as a trade-off. If you want cheaper refurbished PCs you’ll have to tolerate adjusting to Linux. If you want to deal with Microsoft you’ll have to pay for it: Licensing and new hardware and all.
So, the question becomes: does a particular charity have a shortage of tech people working for them or a shortage of money? Which would be easier to get?
IMHO each new version of Windows looks & feels different to the last anyway, so most (general users) wouldn’t know the difference - they just need a web browser an email client and an office suite.
That 1 Windows-only program they use is probably not compatible with the next version of Windows too
That 1 Windows-only program they use is probably not compatible with the next version of Windows too
No it probably is, Microsoft puts a ton of effort into backwards compatibility
Yeah a lot of problems with Windows can actually be explained by some kind of backwards compatibility lol
If you’re buying a PC that doesn’t have the specs to run Windows 11, you’re probably only using it for web browsing tasks anyway. I’d wager that many of them wouldn’t even notice that they’re using a different OS.
My old PC has the horsepower to run 11. I even forced it on there. I got a tpm module too. But the cpu itself isn’t officially supported, even though it’s a i7 5930K with 6 cores and 12 threads @4 GHz.
My PC isn’t compatible with Windows 11.
I cobbled it together from spare parts as my wife has upgraded over the years. It was a pretty beefy computer when she first built it, and it’s gotten a couple upgrades along the way, but the CPU and MoBo are probably about 10 years old if not older (it’s an AMD FX-something, I’m unsure of the exact specs, it’s whatever parts were in her bin of cast-offs stuck with a new case and hard drive)
And I’m happily gaming on it. I may not be maxing out the latest AAA titles in glorious 8k epic quality 120hz HDR VR yadda yadda yadda, but I can still run pretty much any game out there on some acceptable mid-to-high quality settings and decent performance.
I’m probably going to have to either upgrade the MoBo and processor come October, or make the jump to Linux (which I’m not exactly opposed to, but I do like not having to fuck with wine and proton to run my games)
It’s a perfectly serviceable board, still doing just fine by me, and there’s no reason it can’t give someone at least a few more good years of use, even as a gaming computer if you’re not a graphics snob.
But if I decide to upgrade, unless I find someone who wants to run Linux on it, or understands the risk of running win10 with no security updates, it’s probably going to become e waste.
Steam does most of the fucking around for you these days.
Yeah, steam has definitely done a lot to improve the situation and I’m very impressed with the current state of things.
I just have a bit of a mental block from the last time I seriously tried to use Linux (circa 2009 probably) that I need to get over. A lot has changed since then
My last go-around with Linux gaming was pre-steam deck. I think it ended around 2018ish? So it’s been long enough I should probably give Linux a real try again sometime
Hello, I would like to run linux on it. 👋
Hey if you’re in the states, I ended up with a pallet of PCs from an auction I didn’t expect to win and my wife would be happy to see one more disappear, so if you want to cover shipping I’d be happy to send it off to ya. They’re just HP Elitedesk SFFs with 4th gen i5s, but there’s a bunch of half-height PCIe slots and 3.5" bays and even a DVD drive so plenty of expandability to get yourself into trouble with
Lol, I’ll keep that in mind, internet stranger. I do have a lot of techy friends who I’ll probably offer it up to first, and I haven’t quite ruled out running Linux myself either to keep as my main PC or to use as a media server or something, but I’ll keep you in mind if I’m looking to get rid of it in a few months.
If it does come to that, pay for shipping (or pick it up if you happen to be local) and it’s yours. Feel free to hit me up to ask about it come november-ish if I don’t reach out first. No guarantees it will be available, but I’d rather it go to someone who’s going to use it than be waste
(╭☞´ิ∀´ิ)╭☞
There are extended security options for win10. Might be worth it to consider kicking the can a bit farther down the road. https://0patch.com/
So much for windows 10 being the last version.
This was apparently never an official statement. It was someone in an interview that misspoke.
Where did Microsoft put an official announcement saying the statement from an official Microsoft employee, Jerry Nixon, speaking at an official Microsoft conference, Ignite, was incorrect?
Edit:
When reached for comment, [Microsoft] didn’t dismiss them at all
Recent comments at Ignite about Windows 10 are reflective of the way Windows will be delivered
https://www.theverge.com/2015/5/7/8568473/windows-10-last-version-of-windows
Well, that’s not surprising to see. Thanks for the clarification.
In other words it was the sales department doing what they always do, pulling complete bullshit out of their ass and then expecting the engineering team to deliver it.
Would not be surprised at all. Just want people to know about that instead of still being mad about some bullshit someone spewed years ago.
Pick a newbie friendly version. I’m going to suggest linux mint, but there may be better options.
That’s literally what the representative from the charity said they did in the linked article
I’ve been planning on selling a couple older laptops (Latitude E6420 and ThinkPad X240) and this is a fantastic idea. The former laptop doesn’t even have Windows 10 drivers (that I know of)
The ThinkPads are great. I have an X220 that I have running Mint that I use in my garage. Its use cases are music streaming, displaying PDF Service Manuals/Technical Diagrams, and web queries for random questions/video instructions. I’m working on trying to see if I can get Wine to let me run some diagnostic software on it too.
It can certainly do more than that as I used it through school a number of years ago for note taking and small programming projects. But it’s retired to being the tank that it is and it’s amazing for that.
I totally agree, they’re mad little machines. I’m only selling mine because I can’t stand the combined touchpad/track point setup Lenovo did in that generation and I quickly replaced it with an X260. Both of them are capable of damn good battery life (I get about 5-6 hours from my X260)
Sounds like an easy choice to me.
Why is this even a question?
Well, because if the receiver of these can’t or won’t use Linux, then not efficiently trying to recycle them will either put the burden of getting them properly recycled on vulnerable people, or they just won’t be, either sitting collecting dust or being thrown in the dump.
I’m not saying it’s a strong reason, but it is a question to consider.
Most people have limited experience with computers. Most of them have barely used Windows so I don’t see Linux Mint as being any more difficult for those folks.
Even taking that incredibly Lemmy-brained statement as fact, I wonder if you understand that donated computers are not primarily for people who don’t ordinarily have a reason to use computers.
mint, ubuntu, kde neon mabye… many more
Is secure boot a requirement? Or optional?
Secure boot has been a requirement for like 10+ years now. I think windows 8 was when they required it on all new computers. You could turn it off if you really wanted and I think it would still work, but why would you? Linux has played well with it for almost as long.
Or…3rd option. Revert back to Windows XP.
username checks out. I’m not even joking. no web browser has had XP support for years by now, even firefox dropped it for 7 I think last year
Only feasible if on an air-gapped network with no access to the internet
No no, that’s the point. To infect as many computers as absolutely possible, all clogging down every network, and eventually microsoft will have to address the issues.
What do you care? I assume you’re on linux and wouldn’t be affected either way.
You seem to have a lot more faith in microsoft than I do.
My concern is the likelyhood that companies using MS products will cut corners by using deprecated/unsupported OSs for years after the last security patch, which will lead to security breaches for many consumers.
Not on Linux yet, but I really need to make the switch soon. Will be nice to actually have some semblance of control over my own personal devices.
My concern is the likelyhood that companies using MS products will cut corners by using deprecated/unsupported OSs for years after the last security patch, which will lead to security breaches for many consumers.
That likelihood is high, real and current.
I see you are interested in switching to the penguin, may I be of any assistance?
Thanks, but no thanks, Clippy
And with hardware supported by XP.
Pleb. Windows 94 is where it’s at.
Why not CentOS?
