since yesterday… oop: https://mathstodon.xyz/@johncarlosbaez/114816283089805862
haven’t found a public google announcement, the screenshot seems to be from emails
Wrong. There is no AI agent on my Pixel 8 Pro running GrapheneOS.
I was quite happy still running my Samsung S22, then all this shit started to get rammed in (plus Samsung keyboard was constantly pasting my clipboard even though I wasn’t using it).
Anyway, I bought a Pixel 9 explicitly for GrapheneOS - the installation was so incredibly easy I was really surprised.
Graphene FTW
Op please change the title as to not further fuel the misinformation. Arstechnica seems to enjoy burying the actual information 3 paragraphs in where they know nobody will read them and your embellishments aren’t helping.
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There’s nothing anywhere that suggests the ai is “remote controlled”.
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Arstechnica suggests that humans have access to the data and as evidence they linked a site saying humans don’t have access.
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Ars seems to want us to think the red rectangles in the image are contradictory. They aren’t as Gemini Apps can be individually turned off independent of Gemini Apps Activity (history) and vice versa. The forced 3 day activity storage doesn’t enable the apps themselves.
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Even the author of the article pointed out that it can be turned off
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Ars cites Tuta’s article selectively to make it sound like disabling gemini is either ineffective or complicated. Tuta itself is a privacy focused gmail alternative with vested interest to muddy the waters but their article is still somewhat better written than Ars’
Edit: Title when this comment was written for posterity:
there is a remote controlled ai agent on every google device that can not be turned off
Yeah, I like Ars, but this article is fearmongering trash. It’s actually a positive move for privacy. “Gemini Apps Activity” is a setting that allows Google to store your Gemini interactions for analytics, human review, etc…, generally a privacy nightmare. However, with it off, Gemini can’t even do basic stuff like setting a reminder. It’s just a nonsense-spewing LLM with no assistant functionality. This update allows you to turn it off while still being able to do useful assistant stuff.
Google could have worded things better, but this is a move in the right direction.
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ok what phone should I get next
Anything compatible with Graphene OS (https://grapheneos.org/); a second-hand Pixel will work best, if you can find one cheap. I use it as my daily driver on a Pixel 7a and it’s great; it’s the most stable and easiest-to-install custom ROM I’ve ever used, and I’ve been rooting my Android devices for over a decade now.
So my Fairphone is not supported because the security updates aren’t good enough. Serves me right trying to find an ethical approach to mobile computing.
I understand GrapheneOS’ philosophy but buying a google product to get away from google software is certainly… a choice. Refurbished or not buying a Pixel would serve Google’s interests, nevermind the fact that I bought my current phone a couple years ago hoping to get close to a decade of use out of it.
Realistically software freedom on mobile phones is doomed until the industry improves the firmware situation. Every project suffers from severe drawbacks because of it.
If you want to keep your Fairphone and ditch android, Fairphone 4 and 5 both appear to be well supported by Ubuntu Touch. The downside is that Ubuntu Touch is currently still based on the 2020 LTS release of Ubuntu (which does still get updates, at least). Fairphone 4 is also somewhat supported by postmarketOS, but call support there is listed as “partial”.
Fairphone should be clean, because it is degoogled
It doesn’t have the worst of google apps, but it still runs Play Services with all its opaqueness and potential spyware. So Gemini should hopefully not be an issue but GrapheneOS would still be nice to have.
I hear you! Hardware fragmentation is a serious issue, very difficult to deal with as a small team, so I can’t hold it against them, but I really wish I had been able to put it on my old Note 9 instead of buying a Pixel 😑 (doesn’t have to be a Pixel, there are other supported devices, but it’s easiest and works best)
Have you tried CalyxOS (https://calyxos.org/)? Review from a year ago seems pretty good (fair warning: Reddit link). I’m keeping Calyx in my back pocket in case Graphene goes tits up.
Does it support banking apps yet? Last time I tried it anything to do with financials, Bitwarden, or 2FA just didn’t work at all.
Edit: and I’ve heard you can get Google play store on it now right? Cause I’ll need all of my apps back
Yes, I’ve used all my apps pretty seamlessly. I had to turn on “exploit protection compatibility mode” for some of them like banking, but they work fine. You can get Google Play, and it runs in a sandbox, but I use Obtainium and Aurora Store (Aurora in particular would be of interest to you, it’s just a frontend for the Google Play store which allows anonymous connections: https://f-droid.org/packages/com.aurora.store/). I moved to Aegis for my 2FA because I was looking for a way out of the Twilio/Authy ecosystem. I don’t play games on my phone, so I can’t report back on how those work.
I use multiple banking apps on my Graphene phone, the only thing it doesn’t support is contactless payments.
Yes it does? At least for me the “Sicher Bezahlen” app many German banks use for NFC payments works flawlessly.
Or are you referring to the proprietary Google Pay software? This isn’t supported I believe.
Oh that’s unfortunate, but I guess it wouldn’t have Google wallet on it huh
You can get a watch that you run Google wallet on instead but to be honest I don’t really miss contactless and just use my physical card instead.
Some phone cases let you put your card on the back of the phone and you can use the NFC chip like that, if you are still missing that feature.
Every single banking app works fine, just have to give it full permissions.
Okay good, last time I tried it (around 2020) none of my banking apps worked because of a cert issue or something like that I believe. And I don’t use small banks just PNC, Capital One, and and JP Morgan.
I douse Google pay though. I know graphene doesn’t come with the Google apps but can I install them anyways?
Edit: and 2FA apps had issues too. Microsoft Authenticator and Cisco Duo just refused to run.
All Google apps work, Especially if they’re installed from the play store, which I try to avoid at all costs. Duo mobile works no problem, haven’t tried ms or Google authenticator. ChatGPT app still doesn’t work, but Claude does.
Is there an easy way to migrate everything into graphene or do I have to start fresh?
You can’t convert it if thats what you mean. I would hookup your phone to a computer and take any files off it for backup though. Maybe downloads and pictures/videos, stuff like that. The apps and logging into them will have to be redone as far as I know. You can still use the google store though through Aurora, and there is fdroid as well for Foss apps.
If your current device supports LineageOS, you can install that. I’ve got no traces of Gemini on my Pixel 7, even with “gapps” installed.
refurbished pixel > version 8, and graphene and pray android stays open source, otherwise idk brickphone for emergency only tbh
Ham radio.
I’m considering a pine phone, but honestly idk.
Ideally none at all. A linux phone if you have to have one.
We can’t all be Jack White. I’ve tried. You cannot live in this society with no phone. Unless you have no friends and no job.
Can’t even get on the bus or easily apply for government programs/loans, or review your medical anything online without an app now in my province. There’s workarounds but they are not accessible.
what’s a linux phone? I thought android was written on Linux
android is heavily modified unix afaik. Linux is not, it uses gnu. the only linux based os i am aware off is postmarketOS
Unless it’s changed Android is built on a modified Linux kernel.
one that supports calyx os
A pixel. It comes without Gemini pre-installed. That or any phone on the planet without Gemini installed on Android. So the vast majority of them.
What about Gemini Space (aka Ambient Data) that’s tied to Android System Intelligence - which is a system app enabled by default that can be disabled (if you know how to disable system apps) but of course cannot be uninstalled.
Also google is planning to replace Assistant with Gemini in the near future so all phones that have assistant (which is again enabled by default on most if not all android phones) will get Gemini sooner or later.
None of that has to do with what is being presented and posted here. They are not just sucking up your data without telling you or anything you didn’t ask for when you manually installed Gemini.
Not wanting bullshit in my feed is a far cry from my views on privacy.
Check again. If you’ve got a pixel, you might have to go into your apps and use the search function to find it. It installs and hides itself as of some recent update.
No, you are incorrect.
Ok, then what are these screens on my pixel 6 pro?
I do not have the Gemini app itself installed, but there’s some functionality of it right there.
One is invoking Gemini results via search API and has limited access and the other is the full app you install with the additional functionality and permissions.
This email applies to the latter.
It depends on whether you’re using apps that require Play Integrity attestation, like some banking apps do.
If that’s the case, consider the humble iPhone!
Apple likes to pretend they aren’t evil since they’re just evil in a different way than google.
Oh, yeah. Absolutely. No ethical consumption under capitalism, amirite?
People wanna buy phones though.
At least with Google they don’t make the cornerstone of their branding lies (we are super focused on YOUR privacy), and you actually have some choice in how you use your phone.
Just goes to show how EULAs are nonensical legalese and as such unenforceable in and by any (sane) court.
How can we spy on you if you turn it off.
More like how can they spy on you if you don’t manually install this agent that does exactly what it’s described to do but facts don’t matter anymore I guess 🤷♂️
It likely installed in the background as a hidden ‘app’. No user interaction required.
Nope. Made up assumptions and fake news.
Edit:
Fuck, I’m wrong, you’re right. I must have spot checked the Gemini fan club or something out of my end users. Still don’t know how all our luddite inter-office mail couriers got it.
Looks like Google has added a Gemini options page to Android settings regardless of the app install, which is where my confusion on my own device came from.
Old post
Show proof then.
Then how did it end up on my phone, or on the over 1000 android phones my workplace oversees through mdm solutions?
It’s being pushed with normal automatic app updates through Google Play.
Show proof of how an app got on your phones? Sure get me a user account on your tooling!
My sincerest apologies, I am a clown. Previous posts edited.
Butthurt because fake news.
Edit:
Fuck, I’m wrong, you’re right. I must have spot checked the Gemini fan club or something out of my end users. Still don’t know how all our luddite inter-office mail couriers got it.
Looks like Google has added a Gemini options page to Android settings regardless of the app install, which is where my confusion on my own device came from.
Old post
My… tooling? So you don’t even understand what MDM means. Ugh. Hope you had fun with the shitposting.
For the crowd, it’s mobile device management. In this scenario, it is being used to manage access to company resources (work email) through specific siloed off apps on employees’ personal phones. Employee says “I want to read my work email from my phone”, we say “sure, just install this MDM that allows us to remotely wipe it from your phone, or to wipe your entire phone, and also lets us track your phone’s location and all installed apps”.
Personally, as part of the team that admins that system, I don’t allow it on my personal device.
It could be used to manage company owned phones and tablets for places that use them instead of point of sale systems, but the general use case is for managing “bring your own” personal devices and their access to work data.
Point is, Gemini is installed on too many of my end-users’ personal devices for it to be just something people are choosing to install themselves. Not enough tech savvy people here for that to work out statistically. Our fucking interoffice mail couriers have it (at least the ones with phones new enough to support our MDM).
Plus, it’s on my personal phone. I sure as hell didn’t go out of my way to install it. It came in through the standard Google Play app updates. Like everyone else but this dingleberry is saying.
Right! because this is the only app that Google is spying on you. what agent are you talking about? does exactly what? how do you know?
And all of google’s history and business model totally doesn’t matter, I guess.
Try harder… or not. 🤷♂️
I know they are scanning my data. I install and log into their services. I agree to it.
Again I’ll explain it because reading is too hard. The app isn’t secretly installing itself on phones. You install it. Absolutely absurd how tech illiterate this crowd is.
You can turn it off by disabling or uninstalling the app. Not trying to defend google here, but for clarity “whether your Gemini Apps Activity is on or off” refers to the app not following standard android procedure for killing background processes from how i understand it. So you actually have to fully disable it in the system settings, not just swipe it away.
What app? I don’t have any Gemini app on my phone and I still have that malware popping up everywhere
Have you checked in your system apps for Gemini or Bard? I have it disabled but the apk is still on my device under the “bard” name.
Is there a special place for system apps ? Search either Gemini or bard in the app list returns nothing
Settings>Apps>See All>Select the context menu at the top right of the screen>Show System Apps
Then search for Assistant, Bard, Gemini and AI. Depending on your device it might be reskinned or stuffed into a different app that has been updated (Google Assistant for example at one point could be configured into a Gemini frontend)
Thanks, unfortunately nothing there. Even though I get notifications telling me to use it, and my assistant was replaced by that turd. Guess I’ll end up switching roms to avoid it
Nope. It’s a user space app not tied to services. You just uninstall the app.
It’s only an issue if it comes pre installed via retailer or manufacter. This includes pixels.
Edit:
Fuck, I’m wrong, you’re right. I must have spot checked the Gemini fan club or something out of my end users. Still don’t know how all our luddite inter-office mail couriers got it.
Looks like Google has added a Gemini options page to Android settings regardless of the app install, which is where my confusion on my own device came from.
Old post
So… it’s only an issue for any phone still pulling normal updates through Google Play.
That would still be the majority buddy.
I have a stock pixel 6a. I just uninstalled the app a couple days ago. Nothing new popped up yet (And I’m pretty sure it was only installed because I tested it ages ago when it first came out)
Nope. Not sure where you got that from. You need to install the app
I assume it will be force fed to users on all commercial Android 16 phones soon.
Whatever you need to tell yourself for creating fake news 🤷♂️.
I have the app and can’t uninstall it. It’s marked as a system app, so it can’t be removed 😑
That is a carrier or phone model issue then.
Its funny to me how people see Microsoft doing exactly this and then genuinely believe that all the other technofascist companies wont do the same. How naive can you be.
And yet I’m not posting fake news as facts, curious.
I have all of these settings off, but it’s still summarizing my emails and offering to add it to my calendar because there are no conflicting events.
I just want to be able to talk to my phone to set reminders and alarms. I used to be able to do this with the assistant. Now it’s this invasive AI thing, and I do not have a replacement. :-(
You should be able to go back to the old assistant: It should be in your Google app settings under Gemini settings > 'assistants from google’ and toggle back to the old assistant.
For how long this will remain doable I don’t know.
They must have had an AI write that.
So, what this seems to be saying, and what is reflected in the settings screens I can access on devices I have at hand, is that Gemini will still have (limited) functionality hooking jnto certain apps even if you’ve disabled “Gemini App history”.
The app is being pushed through normal updates via Google Play (by your carrier or Google itself). In some cases the app can be uninstalled by the end user through the normal UI, and in other cases it installs as a system app and requires adb to be used to disable and/or uninstall it.EDIT: FALSE, GOOGLE HAS NOT PUSHED THE APP OUT YET, JUST A SETTINGS PAGE
As always, the most secure way to use android is through a custom locked down ROM like Graphene OS.
Can I use an ai to mask my activity?
Is the Pixel 3 old enough that I’m out of range of this bullshit?
Feed The Google AI. Starve the old beast, feed the new. Mbas raise gremlins.
Absolutely fake news.
What’s left of this husk called Lemmy is truth social for nerds and tankies.
Then why are you still here?
Desperation for something better than Reddit.
And someone else has to create it for you and cater to your own bias, isn’t it?
If not, then stop complaining, get coding, you twat.
I always love when I find some blatantly false information and some guy sucking down the Kool aid gets enraged when it gets called out. I forgot that part.
It happens constantly on here
