Discounting for a moment that these are targeted at a college-age demographic, are there people out there on the verge of committing sexual assault who would be swayed by the advise of a cartoon taco?

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Personally, I think the message featured in these posters is of the utmost importance.

I think it should be broadcast and re-broadcast, at all levels, until the population has been saturated by it.

That the message is here being broadcast using signage suitable for a fourth grade classroom but aimed at a college demographic is horrifying. That such signage would be a necessary tool of communication within that demographic is fucking TERRIFYING.

This was posted not to belittle the message or to make light of our need for it - but to highlight just how pitifully we have failed as a culture/civilization for having the need to implement it…

I considered deleting this post entirely, under the notion that my intentions had misfired badly. But the discourse in this thread seems like it has as much potential to be a part of the solution as a talking anthropomorphic taco.

Art should challenge conceptions and ignite dialogue. So, perhaps the taco was an effective tool.

  • unknownuserunknownlocation@kbin.earth
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    4 days ago

    It’s a shitposting comm, but you asked a serious question which deserves an answer.

    Trigger warning: it’s about rape, and I mention some pretty specific examples coming from reality. Honestly, I hope this doesn’t keep me up tonight.

    To start, I think it’s important to look at how and why rape happens. In most cases, rape is a matter of the perpetrator asserting dominance over the victim. There are many non-sexual as well as sexual ways of doing that. Rape is one of, if not the most intimate way. It’s the reason why there are cases where heterosexual men rape other men, for instance. It’s not about attraction. It’s about asserting dominance, in one of the most disgusting ways imaginable.

    Rape is rarely the “someone jumped out of the bush and raped me” story. In the vast majority of cases, it’s someone they know. A friend. A significant other. A family member. And it’s not necessarily the “I was forced into the bed” story, either. It’s often a direct pressuring of the victim into doing something they really don’t. “Why not, do you think I’m ugly?” “It’s been so long, how are you so insensitive?” “You never want to! How is our relationship supposed to survive?” (By the way, these examples come from reality - not word by word, but the statements as wholes.) It’s often part of a larger pattern of abuse - and I mean think about it, if you’re doing something that heinous, it’s probably not the only morally reprehensible thing you’re doing.

    So honestly, I’m going to go with a pretty clear “no”. I mean, do we have signs telling people not to steal? Do we have signs to tell people not to kill? No. The closest thing we have to that is signs at stores that essentially say “you can’t steal here without getting caught”. It’s never about “watch out, you might accidentally steal something, here’s how not to do it”. And think about it this way: these “don’t rape” campaigns have been around for a while now. I have yet to see any evidence that they actually do any good.

    In fact, I worry that they actually may do more harm than good. And I’m not even talking about people who would never rape someone who are even more scared to approach and make legitimate advances on people due to things like this. It’s oversimplifying the complex patterns present in abuse down to something that can be itself abused. Think about the statements I mentioned above and the fries poster. The last four points listed can be easily achieved by modifying those manipulative phrases. “You always make me feel like I’m forcing you, you know I always stop if you want me to” (for us looking in from the outside, that second statement is obviously a lie). Add a little Gaslighting and the victim will believe they’re freely consenting. So now the victim sees this poster, and goes, “well, I guess it was consensual?” The fuck it was not. And that’s often one of the main difficulties with recovering from rape in the first place: coming to terms with it. Rape is by nature incredibly traumatic, and in traumatic situations (especially ones like that) people often reason that the traumatic situation never happened, because dealing with it is too taxing. Meanwhile the person is developing psychological symptoms left, right and center, which the victim will often, then, in turn, also try to cover up.

    So, what should we do to combat rape? Well, we have to take a more holistic approach. Consent is very important in sex, but it doesn’t only apply to sex. We need to teach people how to recognize abusive behavior - and teach kids in school (obviously, at an age appropriate level) about abusive patterns. How to recognize it happening to them, and how to recognize it happening to others. We need to teach people how to deal with abusive situations. We need to reach people how to help others in abusive situations. At the moment, this is knowledge that mostly only specialists in that topic and people who are or were personally affected and did a lot of reading know. When these things become common knowledge, then we have a chance at turning the tide. We also need to vastly improve the way we deal with mental health. Essentially, we need much more readily and easily accessible psychological care. Treating trauma is one of the best ways to avoid victims becoming revictimized, since predators tend to feed on those who are already down, and can also avoid extreme cases where victims become perpetrators. Now, you may be thinking, “isn’t that victim blaming?” We’re not blaming the victim. The victim is not at fault for being a victim. The fault lies clearly at the perpetrator’s feet for being such an abhorrent piece of shit. And while realizing that as a victim is incredibly important on the road to recovery, it doesn’t change anything about what will help. Unfortunately, a perpetrator who keeps getting away with what they’re doing will very, very rarely (really) change what they’re doing. So, we can only try to help victims and avoid creating further victims.

    • j_elgato@leminal.spaceOP
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      4 days ago

      Personally, I think the message featured in these posters is of the utmost importance.

      I think it should be broadcast and re-broadcast, at all levels, until the population has been saturated by it.

      That the message is here being broadcast using signage suitable for a fourth grade classroom but aimed at a college demographic is horrifying. That such signage would be a necessary tool of communication within that demographic is fucking TERRIFYING.

      This was posted not to belittle the message or to make light of our need for it - but to highlight just how pitifully we have failed as a culture/civilization for having the need to implement it…

      I considered deleting this post entirely, under the notion that my intentions had misfired badly. But the discourse in this thread seems like it has as much potential to be a part of the solution as a talking anthropomorphic taco.

      • unknownuserunknownlocation@kbin.earth
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        3 days ago

        Honestly, did you even read what I wrote? Yes, these topics need to be talked about much more. But in a way that actually addresses the core of the problem, which this oversimplified message simply does not.

        Discourse implies actually listening, or in this case reading, as well.

        • j_elgato@leminal.spaceOP
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          3 days ago

          I did.

          Discussing ways in which we can stop abusing each other is not a simple conversation because the forms and justification of that abuse can take any number of shapes.

          An oversimplificafion of a complex and multifaceted problem can at least provide us with the context and vocabulary necessary to begin meaningful discourse - but it could not, by definition, allow us to address the core of such a problem.

          Broadcast the message until it reaches saturation: Repetitive broadcast of a basic and simplified “Don’t steal” message is of itself useless for addressing the core of the problem, such an oversimplificafion only helps to establish a basic moral context and to educate those who are stealing simply because they are ignorant of the act. In a society where theft is rampant due to lack of education basic messaging becomes the start of a solution not the end of it.

          An oversimplificafion message that we need to seek consent is equally useless to anyone who already understands the concept but it has directly lead us to this very conversation now, and without that we would not be ABLE to begin discussing the core problem and potential solutions for it.

          Your point that this messaging could be prevented and end up doing more harm than good is, I feel, valid. Addressing the core of the problem would mean creating a society where we value each other enough so that we stop preying upon each other. I’m… not seeing a talking basket of fries leading us to do that - but it is possible that any insights we might generate through this reactive discourse might be useful in that effort.

          Education alone does not get us to a place where “don’t harm others” becomes a self-evident mandate. Messaging alone does not allow us to value and respect each other enough to stop harming each other. Teaching compassion for each other at a level necessary to transform a society to the point where it evolves enough to stop harming itself… I mean, at the very least that would require more than just a taco?