Of the two guys in question one seems to be a tiny indie dev making single player games. The other is a hugely established figure working on a multiplayer game.
Thor is a guy who got fired from Blizzard, got mad, made an indie game studio, has been saying he’s been developing this game for uh… 7 years now, while in actuality he’s been livestreaming for 10 hours a day for that time, basically not developing shit.
Chet is a writer, with literally no coding experience, who is now taking his first steps into trying to make an indie game, that is multiplayer.
Neither of these people have ever seen or used or coded any of their own network code for running any kind of server architecture, ever.
That does not seem to be accurate in Faliszek’s case. He did not “take his first steps into trying to make an indie game”, he led the studio that did make it, led development on the game and then proceeded to go through the exact process we’re discussing to make it community-runnable.
He has DEFINITELY seen the code needed to run the server architecture, if the 30 minute video breaking down the process of decoupling the game from central servers he posted today is any indication (which I did watch, including the parts that are about organic farming, because Chet actually IS interesting enough for me to spend my day checking out his manifesto).
Ah, ok, Chet was in a meeting with some actual networking coders who explained a single, particular, server architecture to him…
Where I can guarantee they were all at least mildly annoyed that he’s decided to change the scope of the game, so now they have to change the architecture, instead of just… designing it from the ground up to be able to add that at some point, as opposed to … having to reengineer the whole thing.
So, yep ok you got me, he has seen… actually no, he hasn’t seen the code, because the people who actually can code, whom he just got out of this meeting with, know he couldn’t read it or understand it.
So they gave him a white board or powerpoint presentation on the relevant concepts and how they relate to each other at a very high level.
How do I know this?
Because I have been in that group of actually tech-competent people, giving the new or totally inexperienced project manager, the same presentation, many, many times.
That and, there’s no code in this video, at all.
Its pretty normal for people who actually understand code to… do code reviews with their team, go over it with a fine toothed comb, works well as a screenshare on Zoom or something like that…
…
You first say ‘seems’ and then say ‘DEFINITELY’.
You again struggle with being precise, accurate and consistent.
Not good traits for someone who claims to understand highly complex technical problems.
…
What Chet is doing is the classic…
‘im in over my head, i need to repeat everything i’ve just learned for the first time today as a vlog post to simultaneously help it stick in my brain while also outwardly appearing competent and responsible to easily impressed rubes’
…style thing that insecure project leads do quite often, you used to be able to see just metric fucktons of this kind of shit on linkedin, all the damned time, before it fully became a parody of itself.
He’s panicking man, haha!
These are all brand new concepts to him, and he only bothered to, or was forced to learn them, after he screwed stuff up so bad that now his employees need to explain to him how badly he screwed up, and how complicated it will be to fix it.
If Chet was a competent project lead, and leader of a business, this video would not include ‘(my) company fail(ed)’’ in the title, nor would he have ordered … worse than a slew of new features, but a slew of new features that can only work if the backbone, the foundation of the game is basically redesigned, as will various bits and bobs that only currently work with the exact prior configuration that now has to change.
If Chet was a competent project lead, he would have outlined a development process that had contingency plan pivots built into it from the start, accounting for possible future changes to business conditions that should be expected over the course of dvelopment.
Not suddenly jump tracks after something he didn’t initially plan for as a possibility, neccessitating a sudden crash course in why and how its actually really difficult to rebuild the foundation and support beams of a building after all the floors and walls and electrical and plumbing have been put in.
I’ve had good project leads, amazing project leads, and terrible ones.
Chet is acting like a terrible one.
…
Like I said, dude is out of his element, and is lashing out at others (Ross), doing projection, because he is insecure and too cowardly to admit it.
Also just… any project lead with a ‘manifesto’ … this is a gigantic fucking red flag that this person is insecure and overcompensating, initially inflexible and stubborn, and then after he refuses to listen people he ostensibly hired because he values their subject matter expertise … well, then, his ‘vision’ cracks at the seams everyone was telling him would likely occur, and then he panics.
Seen it happen first hand more times than I wish I did.
…
Oh right, uh yeah, when you are being a project lead, and business director, for the first time… yeah that absolutely is ‘taking your first steps into trying to make an indie game.’
Has he… ever done those things before?
No…?
First steps.
He seems to have used those first steps to jump headlong into the deep end, not realizing the pool hasn’t been properly cleaned in two years, but yeah, he did take those first steps into this pool, for the first time.
If I am a coder with a lot of experience in, I dunno, sql database structuring and queries… and then boss asks me to also learn the weird, proprietary version of javascript that the weird, 3rd party tool we use uses to make a complex, 200 field input page with interdepedent logic, and hook that all into the sql database?
Well, I say I have prior experience with javascript in general, but not this unique implementation of it that tears out half the standard core functions and replacss them with custom ones… so i am ‘taking my first steps’ into this particular dialect or variant of javascript, might take me a bit to familiarize myself with the differences and get my bearings.
Software development is not just ‘a speciality’.
It is actually hundreds or thousands of different specialities, which are lumped into a broad category, and non-tech lay people basically always think its 100 times less complicated than it actually is.
Yeeeah, you haven’t worked in gaming at all, have you?
I mean, I believe that you’ve been paid to code at some point and I’m hoping you’re not just being a dick on the Internet for sport, but man, all these I’m-such-a-competent-software-engineer rants are not giving you the authority brownie points you think they are.
Whatever, if you know you know. I’m not interested. Just… in the off-chance anybody here reads this far down this thread, couple of things: one, stop it, what are you doing. Two, this is not what a person that knows what they’re talking about sounds like. He’ll try to tell you it is, but it is really not.
I have worked in gaming, and I’ve already told you that, but you already said you don’t read things that I write, so yeah.
And, yes, I am at this point being a dick, to you, on the internet, for sport, because you are so entirely disingenuous and full of shit that it is quite amusing to me.
I don’t actually give a shit whether or not you in particular agree with me or like me or believe me… because its been clear from the get go that you are both woefully uninformed but also totally stubborn, obstinant and set in your opinion, and you aren’t capable of discussing the technicals you claim to understand.
The other actual experienced software / server engineer in this thread also tried to reason with you, more politely, and you just took a rhetorical approach of overwhelming them with questions… so I am now overwhelming you with relevant info, and you don’t like it.
You’re now just mirroring some of my latest rhetorical approach back at me, albeit in very, very condensed form… you’re not even clever at debating.
You are a power user that thinks themself to be a seasoned senior software engineer, but you’re not.
But hey, since you asked me to stop, I will stop humiliating you now.
Dude I have never been or wanted to be a “seasoned senior software engineer”. I mean, respect to them, can’t get things going without them, but I don’t think of that as an aspirational badge of honor thing.
Also, I’m shocked to find I’ve been mirroring your “rethorical approach”. You really do overestimate how much of your posts I’ve been reading, because I could not tell you what that is. Is the “approach” to wonder if your callousness comes from not having first hand experience? Because let me tell you, I got there all on my own.
Anyway, it’s good that we both find each other’s opinion entirely irrelevant, because I sure have better things to do and not enough self-control to do them instead of this. Toodles indeed.
Thor is a guy who got fired from Blizzard, got mad, made an indie game studio, has been saying he’s been developing this game for uh… 7 years now, while in actuality he’s been livestreaming for 10 hours a day for that time, basically not developing shit.
Chet is a writer, with literally no coding experience, who is now taking his first steps into trying to make an indie game, that is multiplayer.
Neither of these people have ever seen or used or coded any of their own network code for running any kind of server architecture, ever.
That does not seem to be accurate in Faliszek’s case. He did not “take his first steps into trying to make an indie game”, he led the studio that did make it, led development on the game and then proceeded to go through the exact process we’re discussing to make it community-runnable.
He has DEFINITELY seen the code needed to run the server architecture, if the 30 minute video breaking down the process of decoupling the game from central servers he posted today is any indication (which I did watch, including the parts that are about organic farming, because Chet actually IS interesting enough for me to spend my day checking out his manifesto).
Ah, ok, Chet was in a meeting with some actual networking coders who explained a single, particular, server architecture to him…
Where I can guarantee they were all at least mildly annoyed that he’s decided to change the scope of the game, so now they have to change the architecture, instead of just… designing it from the ground up to be able to add that at some point, as opposed to … having to reengineer the whole thing.
So, yep ok you got me, he has seen… actually no, he hasn’t seen the code, because the people who actually can code, whom he just got out of this meeting with, know he couldn’t read it or understand it.
So they gave him a white board or powerpoint presentation on the relevant concepts and how they relate to each other at a very high level.
How do I know this?
Because I have been in that group of actually tech-competent people, giving the new or totally inexperienced project manager, the same presentation, many, many times.
That and, there’s no code in this video, at all.
Its pretty normal for people who actually understand code to… do code reviews with their team, go over it with a fine toothed comb, works well as a screenshare on Zoom or something like that…
…
You first say ‘seems’ and then say ‘DEFINITELY’.
You again struggle with being precise, accurate and consistent.
Not good traits for someone who claims to understand highly complex technical problems.
…
What Chet is doing is the classic…
…style thing that insecure project leads do quite often, you used to be able to see just metric fucktons of this kind of shit on linkedin, all the damned time, before it fully became a parody of itself.
He’s panicking man, haha!
These are all brand new concepts to him, and he only bothered to, or was forced to learn them, after he screwed stuff up so bad that now his employees need to explain to him how badly he screwed up, and how complicated it will be to fix it.
If Chet was a competent project lead, and leader of a business, this video would not include ‘(my) company fail(ed)’’ in the title, nor would he have ordered … worse than a slew of new features, but a slew of new features that can only work if the backbone, the foundation of the game is basically redesigned, as will various bits and bobs that only currently work with the exact prior configuration that now has to change.
If Chet was a competent project lead, he would have outlined a development process that had contingency plan pivots built into it from the start, accounting for possible future changes to business conditions that should be expected over the course of dvelopment.
Not suddenly jump tracks after something he didn’t initially plan for as a possibility, neccessitating a sudden crash course in why and how its actually really difficult to rebuild the foundation and support beams of a building after all the floors and walls and electrical and plumbing have been put in.
I’ve had good project leads, amazing project leads, and terrible ones.
Chet is acting like a terrible one.
…
Like I said, dude is out of his element, and is lashing out at others (Ross), doing projection, because he is insecure and too cowardly to admit it.
Also just… any project lead with a ‘manifesto’ … this is a gigantic fucking red flag that this person is insecure and overcompensating, initially inflexible and stubborn, and then after he refuses to listen people he ostensibly hired because he values their subject matter expertise … well, then, his ‘vision’ cracks at the seams everyone was telling him would likely occur, and then he panics.
Seen it happen first hand more times than I wish I did.
…
Oh right, uh yeah, when you are being a project lead, and business director, for the first time… yeah that absolutely is ‘taking your first steps into trying to make an indie game.’
Has he… ever done those things before?
No…?
First steps.
He seems to have used those first steps to jump headlong into the deep end, not realizing the pool hasn’t been properly cleaned in two years, but yeah, he did take those first steps into this pool, for the first time.
If I am a coder with a lot of experience in, I dunno, sql database structuring and queries… and then boss asks me to also learn the weird, proprietary version of javascript that the weird, 3rd party tool we use uses to make a complex, 200 field input page with interdepedent logic, and hook that all into the sql database?
Well, I say I have prior experience with javascript in general, but not this unique implementation of it that tears out half the standard core functions and replacss them with custom ones… so i am ‘taking my first steps’ into this particular dialect or variant of javascript, might take me a bit to familiarize myself with the differences and get my bearings.
Software development is not just ‘a speciality’.
It is actually hundreds or thousands of different specialities, which are lumped into a broad category, and non-tech lay people basically always think its 100 times less complicated than it actually is.
Yeeeah, you haven’t worked in gaming at all, have you?
I mean, I believe that you’ve been paid to code at some point and I’m hoping you’re not just being a dick on the Internet for sport, but man, all these I’m-such-a-competent-software-engineer rants are not giving you the authority brownie points you think they are.
Whatever, if you know you know. I’m not interested. Just… in the off-chance anybody here reads this far down this thread, couple of things: one, stop it, what are you doing. Two, this is not what a person that knows what they’re talking about sounds like. He’ll try to tell you it is, but it is really not.
I have worked in gaming, and I’ve already told you that, but you already said you don’t read things that I write, so yeah.
And, yes, I am at this point being a dick, to you, on the internet, for sport, because you are so entirely disingenuous and full of shit that it is quite amusing to me.
I don’t actually give a shit whether or not you in particular agree with me or like me or believe me… because its been clear from the get go that you are both woefully uninformed but also totally stubborn, obstinant and set in your opinion, and you aren’t capable of discussing the technicals you claim to understand.
The other actual experienced software / server engineer in this thread also tried to reason with you, more politely, and you just took a rhetorical approach of overwhelming them with questions… so I am now overwhelming you with relevant info, and you don’t like it.
You’re now just mirroring some of my latest rhetorical approach back at me, albeit in very, very condensed form… you’re not even clever at debating.
You are a power user that thinks themself to be a seasoned senior software engineer, but you’re not.
But hey, since you asked me to stop, I will stop humiliating you now.
Toodles!
Dude I have never been or wanted to be a “seasoned senior software engineer”. I mean, respect to them, can’t get things going without them, but I don’t think of that as an aspirational badge of honor thing.
Also, I’m shocked to find I’ve been mirroring your “rethorical approach”. You really do overestimate how much of your posts I’ve been reading, because I could not tell you what that is. Is the “approach” to wonder if your callousness comes from not having first hand experience? Because let me tell you, I got there all on my own.
Anyway, it’s good that we both find each other’s opinion entirely irrelevant, because I sure have better things to do and not enough self-control to do them instead of this. Toodles indeed.