In the last weeks Lemmy has seen a lot of growth, with thousands of new users. To welcome them we are holding this AMA to answer questions from the community. You can ask about the beginnings of Lemmy, how we see the future of Lemmy, our long-term goals, what makes Lemmy different from Reddit, about internet and social media in general, as well as personal questions.
We’d also like to hear your overall feedback on Lemmy: What are its greatest strengths and weaknesses? How would you improve it? What’s something you wish it had? What can our community do to ensure that we keep pulling users away from US tech companies, and into the fediverse?
Lemmy and Reddit may look similar at first glance, but there is a major difference. While Reddit is a corporation with thousands of employees and billionaire investors, Lemmy is nothing but an open source project run by volunteers. It was started in 2019 by @dessalines and @nutomic, turning into a fulltime job since 2020. For our income we are dependent on your donations, so please contribute if you can. We’d like to be able to add more full-time contributors to our co-op.
We will start answering questions from tomorrow (Wednesday). Besides @dessalines and @nutomic, other Lemmy contributors may also chime in to answer questions:
Here are our previous AMAs for those interested.
When will users be able to frictionlessly migrate between instances without losing their posts, their comments, their history, their relationships, their reputation etc? (Without requiring the consent of the exiting instance owner, or that this server still even exists, as they sometimes don’t)
Do you guys have plans to add a spoiler tag? I post a lot of memes about tv shows that I watch, but the users complain that the post isn’t blurred.
I know I can use the NSFW tag, but this gives the wrong idea and limits the post visibility (since people can hide nsfw posts).
I’m just a user and don’t follow the project super closely so please forgive me if this has already been addressed somewhere.
Is there any sort of JavaScript-less interface that would work properly on the Tor network with strict settings enabled? And could you set up instances only with a .onion domain? That way you don’t have to pay for a domain and you’re not at risk of having your domain yanked by ICANN, etc.
If I remember correctly, there was a mastodon instance that was using like a Pakistan domain or something like that and they yanked it.
Also, Federation between Onion and Standard Domains that way tor users would not be isolated.
My main reason for asking is that in my worldview, governments want to break encryption and break freedom of speech, if at all possible, and so the dark web is going to be more and more necessary as time goes on.
Edit: The more standard traffic we add onto the Tor network, the less able it is to be blocked or surveilled as to why somebody is using the Tor network. As an example, I send all of my signal traffic through Tor and download apps from fdroid through Tor and chat on SimpleX through Tor and quite a number of other things. Not because I need the Tor network, but just simply to be yet another person using it for standard activity
Federation between Onion and Standard Domains that way tor users would not be isolated
This is the hardest part as you would need to be both have an onion and have a standard domain, or be a tor-only Federation.
You can easily create a server and allow tor users to use it, which unless a Lemmy server actively blocks tor, you’d be welcome to join via it. But federation from a clearnet to onion cannot happen. It’s the same reason behind why email hasn’t taken off in onionland. The only way email happens is when the providers actively re-map a cleanet domain to an onion domain.
This is what Lemmy would need to do. But then you would have people who could signup continuously over tor and reek havok on the fediverse with no real stopping them. You would then have onion users creating content that would be federated out to other instances. & User generated content from tor users also is … Not portrayed in the best light.
I’m sure someone will eventually create an onion Lemmy instance, but it has it’s own problems to deal with.
This is especially true for lack of moderation tools, automated processes, and spammers who already are getting through the cracks.
Random general question, how do you feel about file hosting? When posting, I tend to avoid uploading media larger than like, 5MB, just cause I know that the cost of storing said media can get exorbitant very quickly and I wouldn’t want to be part of the burden… I’m not able to donate just yet. Knowing this, I am currently on the fence on whether I should create a “gaming clips” community.
That said, it’s nice to be able to embed media from other sources (despite it potentially not working natively for mobile platforms if I’m not mistaken?), which got me thinking: it’d be nice to have some sort of preference list of image/video hosting hosts that users can add to or remove from, and uploading directly from the comment/create post view would use the first working file hosting domain from the list… Just spitballing here.
Shouldn’t torrents be used for large files?
i’m clueless about torrents and Lemmy, can you embed them in posts/comments somehow? The closest thing I could think of is using a Framatube instance, but I don’t think you can embed them
You can just use magnet links. I wrote a guide for how to use them here
Like here’s a Joan Crawford movie I like: Sudden Fear 1952 . A super-beginner way, is to install stremio and click that link. Boom, you’re now watching the movie.
I was hoping it could be embedded, but this is a nice-to-know, thanks!
Reddit has far more niche communities. There’s the saying that “there’s a subreddit for everything.”
What do you think the trajectory/timeline looks like for lemmy to develop a more robust array of niche communities (aka niche subreddits)?
It’ll likely continue to happen organically: niche communities on reddit will keep getting fed up with the changes, and migrate to lemmy.
I don’t know if we’ll ever reach a tipping point, because redditors have shown that there’s almost nothing they won’t tolerate, but its also likely they still don’t know that alternatives exist. There’s a general conspiracy of silence about most fediverse software. Even with all this recent reddit drama, not a single article bothered to mention lemmy or other alternatives. The info is out there, but interested people have to go out of their way to find it.
We’ve also added a scaled sort to boost posts from smaller / less active communities, so that should help some with discovery. It’d also be nice for instances to use the sidebar, pinned posts, or site taglines to highlight smaller communities to help them grow.
Conspiracy is a good way to describe it now that you mention it. Makes me wonder how Pixelfed managed to get so much media coverage recently.
Instagram is much more widely used than Reddit
In addition to what Blaze said, there’s a much more public desire to leave Instagram because of how publicly awful Facebook and Zuckerberg are. Spez is not really any better, but outside of our bubble people don’t really see that as much—party because he has so much less money to push his ideas outside of Reddit.
And it’s just fortuitous that unlike Twitter, Instagram doesn’t have any real competition that isn’t using Activity Pub.
Not really a question, but something to think about is being more strict about backwards compatibility so that people don’t get burnt out on having stuff break. Coming from this post by the Tesseract dev, who did not like the breaking changes to the v3 API in 1.0: https://dubvee.org/post/2904152
To formulate that into an actual question, do you think the changes are still worth it and you’d make the same decision to break backwards compatibility?
I would reply directly to that post, but it looks like the admin (who is also the Tesseract dev) has completely blocked federation with lemmy.ml by IP block or useragent block. So Im going to respond here to his complaints:
Lemmy didnt have a single breaking change since version 0.19 which was released 1 year and 4 months ago. And the breaking changes in that version were quite minor. Before that was 0.18, 1 year and 6 months earlier. That version only removed websockets, so most third-party app devs who used the HTTP API didnt notice any difference. Meaning the API has been almost unchanged for over three years which is quite long for a project that hasnt reached a stable version yet. 1.0 includes all the breaking changes that were held back over the years, so that we dont need any more breaking changes for a long time.
That said it would be great if we could keep backwards compatibility with the existing API in Lemmy 1.0. Problem is with all the major changes we are doing now, it would take a huge amount of work to implement this kind of backwards compatibility. If we had twice as many fulltime developers working on Lemmy this would be doable, but our resources are very limited so we have to make some compromises.
I think the greatest strength is that it is so compatible with other Threadyverse software like PieFed and Mbin. This brings a lot of freedom to the users.
Yes this is a major benefit of an open network. Lemmy is a very large project already, so it takes a lot of effort to implement new features, because they have to meet high standards for quality and performance and also work together with all the existing features. A project like Piefed is much smaller and can implement new features more quickly. This allows for more experimentation, and successful features can later be added to Lemmy.
Also users who are not happy with Lemmy for any reason can switch to a different platform while still interacting with those on Lemmy. So if Piefed and Mbin grow that is also a benefit for Lemmy.
Yes I’m very excited about the growth of other fediverse software, and a lot of the cool new features they’re adding. Its a great eco-system where we can experiment, be creative, and learn from each other.
the apps! the app support is really great for Lemmy
Hi, I think that Lemmy is great thank you for your hard work
I actually think that given the ads and other distorsions, and thanks to federation, Lemmy is overall actually better than reddit!
Some features I miss are:
- tags
- direct messages outside Lemmy (even if not encrypted)
- better rendering of posts on mastodon (something beyond the title only). Not sure what side is responsible for this, tho!
Keep up the good work guys!
- Tags are work in progress
- Not exactly sure what you mean by “direct messages outside Lemmy”, but in version 1.0 they will be compatible with Mastodon and other platforms
- Its a known problem with Mastodon because it only renders
Noteobjects properly, which are meant for short texts less than a paragraph. Lemmy usesPagewhich is meant for longer text. Some platforms like Wordpress (iirc) have an option to federate even long posts asNoteso that it gets rendered fully in Mastodon, but that seems like a bad idea to me. In the end its up to Mastodon how to render different types of federated content on their frontend, so it needs to be fixed by them. Here is an entire discussion about this by developers of different Fediverse platforms (including a Mastodon dev).
Is there a way to move myself as an user from one server to another?
This is the huge disconnect between what the fediverse is and what the users actually want.
Users want the convenience of a single entity that floats around the different instances. They want to interact with community A on instance B and also commini X on instance Y.
But most clients deal with it by letting you log in with multiple users on multiple instances
I don’t follow. I’m on AZ, you’re on LW. We can talk to each other right here, in this community on ML.
Sure, account migration in some form might be nice, but we certainly are able to
interact with community A on instance B and also commini X on instance Y
A LW user can’t interact with Beehaw due to defederation
I’m pretty sure that was Beehaw’s decision to disengage. But thats freedom of association for ya.
Communities should be more unified across servers, especially for niche ones. I want to see an active Metroid community, I don’t give a crap what instance is hosting it (or if it’s a mostly-opaque medley of instances) so long as I’m federated with it. This is probably the biggest UX misunderstanding new users have.
This should be among the first priorities. It would really help kick things off. Not only niche communities, but bigger ones as well. They represent topics of interest. I think I’ve seen a thing like macro community in one of the clients?! Could that be it?
Eternity Android client allows grouping communities into a multi community, but it only helps on getting consolidated feed, not necessarily reaching the same people
the Summit app does it too
Having distinct communities is a feature, not a bug. If two cities set up their own lemmy instances, say
lemmy.sao_luis.br, andlemmy.lagos.ng, they can each have anewscommunity, without them overlapping.Do a search for metroid, and subscribe to whichever ones you like.
It would still be a huge benefit, especially for more niche topics, if we had something like a federation-wide comm like
/f/niche_hobbythat you could subscribe to instead of 20 different/c/niche_hobbycommunities.Maybe comms could opt in/out of behavior to avoid the issue you described.
This would also benefit smaller instances because few people will subscribe to their comms because they are too inactive, making it so their content never gets traction.
My biggest complaint with Lemmy is that it is too hard to group & categorize content. Sometimes I want politics, sometimes I want nerd shit, but my only three options are subscribed, local, and all, which doesn’t have any categorization unless you are on an active, niche server.
Multireddits are pretty much the only thing I miss from reddit.
Piefed has exactly that: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/38733273?scrollToComments=true
Consolidation isn’t always a good thing, communities on different instances will have different styles and trends, and that’s a good thing. The benefit of federated social media is just as much in local instances as it is in federation, unique niches are going to have unique comments even if the post is the exact same.
It does not have to be something mandatory…
I mean, there could be some form of “metacommunities”, something like being able to group multiple communities together in a “view” that shows them to you visually as if they were a single community despite being separated. Bonus points if everyone can make their own custom groupings (but others can subscribe to them… so there can be some community-managed groupings).
In theory you could have multiple “metacommunities” for the same topic still… but at least they could be sharing the same posts if they share communities. I feel grouping like this would be helpful because small communities feel even smaller when they are split.
I think reddit has something similar to that, multireddits or something I think they are called.
Piefed has feeds that achieve exactly that: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/38733273?scrollToComments=true
What exactly is it you’re asking for, though? A change in user behaviour towards consolidation? Some new feature of the platform similar to multi-reddits? How exactly do you suggest that should work?
Not a change in user behaviour. How about: communities on different instances with the same name appear as one community essentially. As in, all instances’ version of that community appear in your feed if subscribed, and when viewing posts in a community, all instances versions of that community are visible.
Perhaps the user can restrict to just one instance’s community or just the local instance’s community with a button (like local/all), if that’s their preference.
Good luck with [email protected] and [email protected]
Old user, haven’t been active recently. Where’d all this growth come from?? Another reddit refugee situation?
Thought you meant pre-2023 by old user
Do you plan to introduce some kind of post tags into Lemmy, preferably something that will behave like Hashtags on Mastodon and other activitypub platforms? I know that Lemmy has been embedding community name as a hashtag for a while now, though having tags that can be populated by users would help discovery greatly.
Lemmy is not for microblogging, so I dont think hashtags make sense.
Well they don’t have to show up as hashtags to users on Lemmy, they can show up as their own designated tags you add to the post on creation of editing. Just some form of post tags to indicate the category of a post (could even be specific to communities like subreddit flairs) but they would show up as hashtags on Mastodon, similar to how Lemmy already embeds a hashtag of the community into posts.
Ah, post tags are currently work in progress. They are also going to be federated.
What have been the biggest challenges with the project over the years, both in terms of technical and non technical aspects. I’d be interesting to hear a bit of retrospective on how has the stack’s been working out, and what surprises you might’ve run into in terms of scaling and federation. What recommendations you’d make based on that and what you would’ve done differently knowing what you know now.
The stack is great, I wouldnt want to change anything. Postgres is very mature and performant, with a high focus on correctness. It can sometimes be difficult to optimize queries, but there are wizards like @[email protected] who know how to do that. Anyway there is no better alternative that I know of. Rust is also great, just like Postgres it is very performant and has a focus on correctness. Unlike most programming languages it is almost impossible to get any runtime crashes, which is very valuable for a webservice.
The high performance means that less hardware is required to host a given number of users, compared to something like NodeJS or PHP. For example when kbin.social was popular, I remember it had to run on multiple beefy servers. Meanwhile lemmy.ml is still running on a single dedicated server, with much more active users. Or Mastodon having to handle incoming federation activities in background tasks which makes the code more complicated, while Lemmy can process them directly in the HTTP handler.
Nevertheless, scaling for more users always has its surprises. I remember very early in development, Lemmy wasnt able to handle more than a dozen requests per second. Turns out we only used a single database connection instead of a connection pool, so each db query was running after that last one was finished, which of course is very slow. It seems obvious in retrospect, but you never notice this problem until there are a dozen or so users active at the same time.
With the Reddit migration two years ago a lot of performance problems came up, as active users on Lemmy suddenly grew around 70 times. You can see some of that in the 0.18.x release announcements. One part of the solution was to add missing database indexes. Another was to remove websocket support, which was keeping a connection open for each user. That works fine with 100 users, but completely breaks down with 1000 or more.
After all there is nothing I would do different really. It would have been good to know about these scaling problems earlier, but thats impossible. In fact for my project Ibis (federated wiki) Im using the exact same architecture as Lemmy.
2nding @nutomic, that I’m really happy with the stack.
The one that seems really magical to me, is diesel. With it we get a compile-time-checked database, that’s tightly integrated to the rust objects / code.
Every single join, select, insert, etc is checked before lemmy is even run, and it eliminates a whole category of errors resulting from mismaps.
Its made adding columns, and changing our data structures so much less error-prone than when I lived in the java-world.
Whenever we find that we’d want to do things differently, we usually do a refactor ASAP so as not to keep rolling spaghetti code. We’ve had to do this many times for the federation and DB code, and even have 2 major refactors that also add features ongoing. But luckily we’ve been able to stay in the rust eco-system for that.
As for UI, leptos didn’t exist when I built lemmy-ui, so I went with a fast react-like alternative, inferno. Its showing its age now, so @sleepless1917 is working on lemmy-ui-leptos, which hopefully will supercede lemmy-ui.
How are you?
Not bad, the swiss chard and spinach I planted recently are sprouting, so that’s got me excited.
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What is your opinion on Bluesky being more popular than Mastodone because it is easier for most?
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Will Lemmy can become easy like Bluesky? Are there plans like that?
thanks
edit: lemmy dev replies only please
Afaik Bluesky is a for-profit company with millions in budget and probably a dozen or more fulltime employees. Of course they have much more resources to polish the new user experience, and also have an actual marketing budget. Plus in practice its completely centralized, they dont need to worry about all the difficulties that federation brings. Its only natural that they are more successful than Mastodon in the short term. But sooner or later they will also have problems when the Bluesky admins make decisions that the community doesnt like, and then there may be another migration wave to the Fediverse.
For the same reasons mentioned above, Lemmy cant become as easy as Bluesky. But the more contributors and donors we have, the closer we can get.
thanks . can I ask one more question? what should we be excited for in lemmy 1.0 (for non technical users)?
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